(This post is part of a series concerning Curtis Flowers, an innocent man convicted of a horrific crime that has divided a small Mississippi town. Information on the Flowers case can be found here.)
Alan Bean, Friends of Justice
Curtis Flowers has been sentenced to die by lethal injection.
The moment the jury was seated, a conviction was a foregone conclusion. Over the years, Winona has woven a guilt-narrative around Curtis Flowers. White Winona sees Curtis Flowers as a cold-hearted killer, nothing more. Black people who know the good-natured gospel singer shake their heads in bewilderment when they hear white folks talk about him. The Curtis of popular white imagination does not exist.
The jurors seated for the sixth Curtis Flowers trial could have rendered a guilty verdict without hearing a word of testimony–they already knew the story as well as the folks commenting on the Friends of Justice website.
The next phase of the process is a justice struggle that could take years. But the case against Curtis is too weak to stand. Exposed to proper scrutiny, it will crumble to dust. Most of the thousands of people currently reading this website every day will lose interest. That’s natural. But the quest for justice will continue nonetheless. I am asking you to join us in this quest. We deeply appreciate the support you have shown over the last two weeks. Lydia and Alan Bean will be returning to Texas later today after speaking to a group of civil rights veterans in Neshoba County and will have more to say about the Flowers trial in the days to come
Friends of Justice 
Alan and Lydia, Lajuanda and Liliana, hear this word from the Lord:
“Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” Matthew 5:11-12
You people go to hell…he’s guilty…f-ck the friends of justice
wow. that’s really messed up.
God’s Love
Regardless of Mr. Flowers’ innocence or guilt the manner in which his case was handled, the, at times, illegal prosecutorial fervor, a racist judge, unreliable witnesses, and the tortured testimonies of some that resulted in an ignominious conclusion, leads me to believe that Mississippi remains the armpit of the U.S.
What happens next? It won’t be long before “presumed innocence” is dead in this nation. The ignorance in the jury’s decision, and the void where justice should be will remind the people of other nations that this is not longer the country of their hopes and dreams. The country they once dreamed of is now officially dead. Immigrants are going to have to look elsewhere for justice and freedom, because neither reside in this nation.
I watched part of the most recent trial, and have read some of the previous court opinions, and I must say that your presentation of the facts of this case is profoundly misleading. Perhaps the people who donate you money for your “work” (nice touch having that donation box right at the top of the page- stay classy!) don’t actually care about that. You have your “larger truth,” and whatever lies you tell in support of it are justified.
It seems to me from reading your website, your chief concern is really yourself- and letting people know how good you think you are. Good luck in your quest for money from the gullible.
mr. or dr. bean if that was your mother, father, wife, husband, or CHILD would your opinion be the same?
The black people in Winona work hand in hand with white people to better our community. There is no more racial problem here than in texas. Most of the black people I’ve spoken with believes Curtis Flowers is guilty also. Allen Bean and his little girls make a great living by deceiving blacks and so that they will contribute to their cult. They could care less about Flowers. They want you to believe there is a race problem involved in his being found guilty so that you will donate your hard earned money to them! It doesn’t matter if he’s black or white, the evidence is overwhemning to find him guilty. Mr. Bean did not bother telling you Flowers shot his cousin a couple of years befor he shot these 4 people. Judge Loper is a fair judge and he allowed the defense to cross over the line many times in this trial. It’s over!!! Now he will have to face the MUSIC!!! Oh and by the way, thanks Allen Bean and Your girls for coming and spending your money with us, and yall come back now, you hear!
Your so stupid!! You were not there or you was sleeping. I bet you wan’t tell judge Loper he is a raciest Judge ! HA
Thanks for sharing, Benny. I hope you derive a bit of satisfaction from the conviction after all you and your family has been through. I will overlook the cult business. Most of the little girls are over thirty, none was under twenty-nine, and they are all highly educated and perceptive people. But I should emphasize for our readers that the accident with the gun took place over a decade before the Tardy tragedy, it was thoroughly investigated and, appropriatedly, ruled an accident. As for Judge Loper . . . well, I’ll leave that for now.
Alan
The rant by Benny and others is simply that–a rant. The idea that Friends of Justice is some kind of cult is laughable. Friends of Justice is a legitimate non-profit organization under the rules of the United States Internal Revenue service. Alan Bean is the CEO of Friends of Justice, for which he is supposed to receive a modest salary which he frequently does not receive due to lack of funds. I know this as a board member of Friends of Justice. His “little girls” as Benny called them were there strictly as volunteers. The idea that Alan has profited financially for his service with FOJ is completely unfounded. Benny, why don’t you go ahead and make explicit in writing what you are implying about Alan and “his girls,” then we could see if there could be some compensation for libel?
Anyone is perfectly free to think whatever they want about the Flowers case, and to think whatever they wish about Alan Bean and the Friends of Justice. But I, as one who has known him for almost half of my more than three score years, will vouch for his character. He is not a charlatan.
wow u r a sad situation
Resorting to name calling
You good people have to be made of iron to be able to politely answer these ignorant people writing to FOJ. May G-d give you the strength you’ll need to continue in your future endeavors.
Best wishes
Frances
I take it you donated money
So let me get this right…. this is the 6th trial meaning 72 people have sat on a jury and heard this case based strictly on the evidence. If my math is correct 65 of these people have found him guilty. So this leaves only 7 that have listened to the evidence and either thought or didnt do it, or had the O.J. “free a black man” disease. So here we are 6 trials later and a margin of 65-7 say he is guilty over not guilty. I have to say I am going to go with the majority on this one. Yall can preach and try to cram all the black and white you want to into peoples heads but its not black vs. white. IT IS right vs. wrong and Flowers was wrong, his lucky 7 jurors were wrong and bean you are wrong. By the end of the trial his OWN attorney admitted his guilt when she tells the jury during the sentencing phase something like……dont’ be like curtis flowers who had a choice to whether to kill then kill…..So yeah, even his defense team was wrong. I think most people, probably a margin of about 65-7, would agree with me Bean when I say you should really stay in Tx., they probably need you over there more than we do anyway, they execute far more inmates than we do. Surely you can find you a nice little choir boy there on death row to snuggle up to, Im sure he would appreciate it. But I’m not too sure how the victims families and friends of the ones he killed will accept you.
b. smith, can you make your point without indulging in character assassination through insinuations of homosexuality? If not, your point must be pretty weak.
Charles, you are the one who brought up homosexuality, not me. Is there something we should know?
My The Lord grant justice in this case; exoneration for Mr. Flowers and peace for the poor family of the victims. From the point of view of a non-local, the details of this case are disturbing. Blind Justice – like the West Memphis Three. These cases should be a reminder to all those who could find themselves in Mr. Flowers’ position – or the position of any wrongfully accused. The wheels turn and crush the poor. These tend to be sadly far more non-whites then whites – so race has something to do with it. Coupled with tunnel vision by the investigators – pray you walk the thin line. In all these comments though, for advocates of the conviction race is tossed out with the bath water – and other issues, such as consistent Prosecutor misconduct is blatantly ignored. This mentality permeates the US. With myself being white, I would not wish to be tried by a jury of 11 non-whites. They are more often then not, not my peers. This is just reality – and I’m not a racist. This is no different then I would likely not be the peer of this man, Mr. Flowers….funny how we read how many delude themselves to believe they are…. I have not nor will not donate money…nor am I a Liberal (ala Democrat). I just have a brain to see through the noize and compassion thanks to Christ. Cheers and God Bless. Keep up the fight against ignorance Alan!
Mr. Smith: The “little choir boy to snuggle up to” comment went way over the line. I don’t want to censor the conversation, but without a basic level of mutual respect things quickly get out of hand. There is no need to demonize those on the other side of a legitimate disagreement.
Alan Bean
You are so wrong Mr. Bean
The family of the boy who was shot will tell you that it was no accident! they have been to most of the trials hoping to find justice for the shooting of their child. The problem is Mr. bean, if the real truth was presented by you, you would loose all of your funds you receive and you would have to get a real Job! About the girls, I can’t imagine any parent who would not try and discourage their daughter to stay away from creepy people like YOU!
You can talk this way if you choose, Mr. Rigby, but it tends to discredit your side of the argument. I am willing to cut you some slack. I honor your grief and have no intention of minimizing your loss. I can’t imagine the horror of what your family has been through and, frankly, I don’t ever want to go through it myself. I hope you find a small sense of relief from sharing your opinions in the forum, but the tone of your comments undermines your message.
Alan Bean
What’s the internal revenue got to do with anything/ You can make as much money as you want as long as you file it on your return. I never said it wasn’t legitimate, I said he and others are using race to make their living. Most of the things he prints are lies! I don’t know what you mean when you say make it explicit in writing what I mean about these girls. Their just young girls following the leadership of someone who does not tell all of the story and I feel they are very misguided! Oh by the way, Mr. Bean has already printed lies about the victims family where he is liable!
It seems to me that “the little choir boy to snuggle up to” is an insinuation of sexual perversion. If not, what is that reference about?
I was referencing Bean’s infatuation that Curtis Flowers sings in the church choir, and after his meeting with him for a mere 45 minutes all he could say was what an outstanding man he was. The only lines that were crossed was when he crossed the TX and LA lines to come over here.
What should be noted here is what outstanding people the victims in this case were and how very little you care about them and their families. All that seems to matter to you is how much racial distrust you can make up and the venom you spew in our community.
Mr. Smith, I can assure you that last week’s visit was not my first social contact with Curtis Flowers. More important, I am intimately acquainted with his family and the social network that supports him. Supporters of Curtis Flowers have repeatedly voiced sympathy for the families impacted by this tragedy. But neither the horror of the crime nor the undeniable suffering of the affected families point to the guilt of any particular defendant. The argument that support for Curtis is an insult to the grieving makes no sense to me.
Alan Bean
I think Mrs. Steiner allowed everyone in the court room to hear what she really thought about The guilt or innocence of Flowers while she was pleading to the jury in trying to save his live, and I Quote form Mrs. Steiner:Ï understand you found him guilty without a reasonable doubt,”but be better than Curtis Flowers who had the choice of whether or not to kill and he chose to kill”end of Quote!
I believe the Friends of justice bunch knows within their heart he is guilty also like Mrs. Steiner “Flowers’s lawyer” but if they admit this, they will not make any more $$$$ off of this!!
Hey Alan, glad to know your intimately close to the Flowes family. Maybe you should see if you could move in with them since you are that close. Maybe what B. Smith was saying is that surely there are some “choir boys” in Texas that would love to be intimately close to you. What I would love to know is the church you were a pastor at and why you left. Don’t get me wrong I’m not asking you to tell me. I have just asked myself that question several times. I have never seen a pastor go from preaching to taking up for thugs that kill people. If you dont won’t too drive to parchman to visit you can pull his picture up on Ms Dept of Corrections and find him 24-7. You probably won’t recognize him without the suit and tie and glasses tho. He looks like a inmate instead of a attorney. And Charles seems like Smith struck a nerve with you for some reason. You jumped all of his post. Everyone at the trial knew what he was reffering to cause all they could say good about Flowers is that he could sing good in a Choir.
I don’t doubt it wasnt your first visit, Im sure it wont be your last. Enjoy as much “intimate” (your word not mine) time with him while you can….another privelege the victims familys can’t enjoy. What would it take to convince you he is guilty? I mean his defense attorney admitted his guilt. Do you want the smoking gun? If the gun were found in a gutter tomorrow and somehow still had flowers prints on it would that convince you? If there had been a video of him committing the crime would you believe it then? Im really curious is there anything that could make you say OK, he did it? Ill admit this was not a slam dunk case for the prosecution, they had to work hard and have a lot of luck on their side to obtain the evidence they were able to get. Such as the shoe box, the spent rounds in the post, the witnesses seeing him in route to and from the store, the witness who saw him leaning on the car the gun was stolen from probably moments before it was stolen, gun shot residue on his hand. I mean I know it could have been any of us who they tried to frame this on but good ol choir boy Curtis was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, a whole bunch of times within about a 3 hour period that day so when you say nothing points towards the guilt of any particular defendent I disagree. It points to the one and only defendent that ever was a suspect in this case.
BRO DR BEAN…YOU ARE SO MISLEADING..YOU WANT ALL YOUR FOLLOWERS TO THINK THE WHOLE TOWN WINONA IS BEHIND MR FLOWERS..THE ONLY PEOPLE MR FLOWERS HAD AT THE TRIAL SUPPORTING HIM WAS A HANDFULL OF FAMILY MEMBERS..THEY WERE DAYS OF THE TRIAL WHEN 2 OR 3 SUPPORTERS OTHER THAN THE FRIENDS OF JUSTICE PEOPLE WERE ONLY ONES THERE..THE ONLY PEOPLE THE DEFENSE TEAM HAD WAS FAMILY MEMBERS OTHER THAN A COUPLE OF STATES WITNESSES..SO MAYBE THE BLACK PEOPLE IN WINONA ARE THINKING TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN YOU WANT THE READERS TO KNOW.
what evidence. where have u been. yall need to just stop. get some real facts then judge until then u shouldnt have nuttin to say
I have never suggested that Flowers has a great deal of support in the white community. But the number of people in the courtroom has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. This isn’t a popularity contest. Or perhaps it is.
I have a great idea…since there is no possible way that Curtis can receive a fair and just trial in terrible ole Winona, maybe the defense can suggest a change of venue for his next trial, if God forbid that should happen. Hmmm…for some reason, the defense does not want to do that. Makes you wonder.
To Diogenese or who ever you are: Name one prosecutor misconduct. You don’t know anything other than what you have heard! You mentioned peers, are all men not created equal? or are you one of those who think that african americans and whites are different ? The definition of the word peers in the webster dicitionary is “one of equal status with others”. Now are we not all equal ? or are you holding color against the 11 whites.
We are organizing our own group which will probably be called “friends of victims”. We will be in touch with all of you who do not support F.O.J. and we will not ask you to support us with a moderate salary, only to help get the word out to those in Ms. and Texas. It’s time we make a stand and squash groups who has an agenda of trying to free murderers and rapest. Oh, and by the way, thank you Mr. Bean for allowing us yo use your web site to run our ad.
Buba,
The 3 state supreme court verdicts being overturned for prosecutor misconduct is what I’m referring to. These are facts known outside this website. When people ignore those facts – and say he was found guilty by X number of people over 6 trials, well – that’s what is misleading. People choosing to ignore what they want. No one has had the courage to address the obvious discrepancies pointed out by Alan in the circumstantial case built around this individual. Alan writes a lot of interesting data – specific data. Why not discount that directly, with contrary facts? All the prior trials are like a runner faulting – He doesn’t win – that win is tossed out. A replay in football, where the ref overturns the other ref’s call. It rolls back. So, so far – in reality, there is only one conviction in 6 tries, and that’s the current one – until God willing, it’s overturned. That’s SAD – no matter what, guilt or no guilt in my opinion.
As to your commentary of peers. We all have unalienable human rights…and there we are equal. I am sure we are not all equal outside of that. For example, if you choose to get on a basketball court with some pros, a stage with some singers, or a lab with some scientists you might see my point. Not only are people’s physical and mental capabilities not equal, neither are their socio-econimic or cultural situations equal. I do believe that a large majority of African Americans and white are different; different cultures which they were brought up in at home, different financial groups on average, different social situations, and so on. I also believe a whole lot of White people are different from other White people – for the same reason. Pick your race – or don’t — my point is clear. A peer group is far closer to one self then the fact they’re Homo sapiens. We have a lot more which makes us complex then this one base fact. Would you consider yourself a peer of Alex Rodriguez, Hugh Hefner, Madonna, how about Curtis Flowers? I wouldn’t. Outside of being a Homo Sapien or American, I am in no other group with those individuals. to me this is the problem which Alan discussed during jury selection. People honestly believing themselves that they can be impartial – a peer, when they most likely cannot and are not. Wanting to do the right thing and doing it are two different things.
Winonanative,
I wondered that myself. I wondered if the defense were even competent…..
Don’t you find all the discrepancies over time reasonable doubt? Shorts, suit, hat – no hat, shoes, no shoes, foot print, no foot print? I actually came to this site thinking this Alan guy was some do-gooder and a bit offended he couldn’t find any whites who experience injustice (reverse racism at it’s best). Reading the details of this case, and the fact it’s common knowledge people (especially minorities and poor) are wrongfully convicted…I guess you’ll hope your peers one day have your definition of reasonable over mine. I’m glad I live a simple life and thank God daily for my blessings; I think we all miss how easily we could be wrongfully accused and have people attacking us from all sides. Praise Jesus.
I have to confess, reading about this unprecedented 6th trial is extremely sad in so so many ways, what an absolute tragedy.
First off, let me extend my heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of the victims of this horrible, senseless tragedy. I for one could never imagine what you have been through or continue to endure and will not pretend to, nor hope I ever have to suffer the same fate.
However, as an outsider reading this story for the 1st time, several things are quite apparent and quite disturbing, in so so many ways.
As a middle-class college-educated white business owner who travels up, down and across this extremely diverse country regularly, and one who is a 20-yr ‘mainland transplant resident of Hawaii, the quintessential multi-racial ethnic melting pot of all the USA, I can testify that racism and injustice are not only alive and well, they are rampant and thriving all across this country, from north to south to east to west.
Men have not changed in thousands of years and the dramas we suffer remain the same as well, with civil, criminal, legal and ecological injustices aplenty occurring daily all across the globe, never mind this country or the town of Winona.
And an unprecedented 6th trial is testimony to that.
That is why the Consitition calls for a fair and impartial hearing before a jury of one’s peers and why so many legal scholars from our founding fathers on have insisted on this as a foundational pillar of our constitution and legal proceedings.
At the very least, the prosecutorial team needs to be replaced to secure a victory if that is what the facts show.
It is why Chief Justices Hugo Black, Byron White, and Thurgood Marshall all advocated and asserted in the record as legal precedent the following:
Justice HUGO BLACK (Smith v. Texas, 1940, per The Great Quotations, ed. George Seldes, Citadel Press, 1983):
“It is part of the established tradition in the use of juries as instruments of public justice that the jury be a body truly representative of the community. For racial discrimination to result in the exclusion from jury service of otherwise qualified groups not only violates our Constitution and the laws enacted under it, but is at war with our basic concepts of a democratic society and a representative government….
“If there has been discrimination, whether accomplished ingeniously or ingenuously, the conviction cannot stand.”
Justice BYRON WHITE (Taylor v. Louisiana, 419 US 522, 530 (1975)): “The purpose of a jury is to guard against the exercise of arbitrary power — to make available the commonsense judgment of the community as a hedge against the overzealous or mistaken prosecutor and in preference to the professional or perhaps overconditioned or biased response of a judge.”
Justice THURGOOD MARSHALL (Peters v. Kiff, 407 US 493, 502 (1972)): “Illegal and unconstitutional jury selection procedures cast doubt on the integrity of the whole judicial process. They create the appearance of bias in the decision of individual cases, and they increase the risk of actual bias as well.”
Are all men created equal and/or therefore really equal?
We are all created possibly with equal potential, but quite obviously, in reality we are not all equal, either in mental, emotional, spiritual or physical capacities and that point has been deftly made here in prior posts.
Therefore, a jury of one’s peers is absolutely essential and call me color-blind and/or racist, but a jury of all whites somehow does not quite fit that bill. At the very least, it would have to be representative of your community, how it actually exists, not the white utopia with properly compliant colored folks Winona seems to prefer.
Consequently, given the fact that the higher courts have consistently struck down the findings of the local court there, it only seems logical that someone someday might try a different tactic in that stale game plan.
Now, as for the guilt or innocence of the accused, the comments posted by folks from Winona on this website are indicative that at least a few folks there are highly passionate with regards to their opinions about the case.
However, the findings from the court this time will quite obviously be contested and just as likely put aside, just like the last five times.
If Mr Flowers is the atrocious beast claimed, then the facts gathered and prosecuted by the Winona police and associated authorities (who are apparently one and the same?) must stand the test and light of the higher courts.
And no amount of yelling, screaming or cursing will change the facts, no matter how much anyone in Winona or anywhere else in the world tries to intimidate our fellow human beings.
So if you want your boy to fry so bad, you should be all about bolstering the facts in your case, and getting the lame brained racist officials in your town to properly prosecute the case once and for all and let the facts and/or egregious lack thereof stand the test of impartial outsiders.
This official facts of this case, as well as the improprieties in the legal proceedings, as repeatedly cited by and used by the higher courts to strike down lower court findings, stink to the high heavens.
It is not only my opinion, but thank God the opinion of your higher courts as well, that this case will apparently never see justice unless it is conducted outside that area.
Mr. Flowers could not possibly get a fair impassioned, balanced hearing of the facts in that town, which is why defense in other parts of the country regularly request and receive the right for a change of venue.
At the very least, this case needs a change of venue; and changing the entire cast from defense, to prosecutors, to judge(s) is absolutely needed.
This is exactly why the Chief Justices of the US Supreme Court strove so hard to protect the citizen from out of control prosecutors and judges who rule their own little fiefdoms in their own little counties and their own little courts, all across the country and globe.
And this is why the supreme ultimate legal power of the land is vested in a jury of one’s peers, whose duty it is to Judge not only the facts of the case, but also the Law itself.
Why?
Because wise men have always known, that other men have not changes for eons and never will and these things we all know to be true:
Power Corrupts.
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
And for the record, I have never contributed to Friends of Justice and never even heard of it until reading about this case, but I absolutely applaud their attempts to ensure all Americans have proper legal defense and support.
And, if the name calling, cursing, attempted intimidation and poor spelling are any indication of what one can expect if he finds himself in a similar situation, I applaud and opt for The TRUE Friends of Justice for their untiring and selfless service to anyone in need.
From Hawaii – I pray for Peace, Blessings, and a Just Resolution to all associated with this case.
THE PROBLEM YOU HAVE MR. OR MRS. PYTHAGORNS IS that all you know about this case is what Allen Bean printed which most of it was not true. Yes there are still raciest in this country and it sounds as if your one of them. Just answer one question for me if you can, When african american”s tell the judge they cannot be fair and inparticial, is he suppose to allow them to serve on the jury to even the racial make up of the jury? What most of oyu would call a victory is for Flowers to go free! That will never happen!!! Thanks God for a District attorney who put this case together with evidence and witnesses that proved Flowers is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. To prove that Bean is in left field on most everthing he writes, he said this was the first time iin history that a man has been tried six times. Oscar Ray Bolden was tried 8 times and the last trial was 1995 in Florida. Loretta Piear in Warren county MS. was tried 6 times for the murder of her ex boy friend’s girl friend. So you see mr. Pythagorns, you believe what mr. Bean reports, trie a little research on your on if your educated enough.
Buba:
I said Curtis is the first capital defendant to be tried six times–note word “capital”. If someone can find a capital defendant that has gone to trial six times on the same evidence I will revise my statement, but thus far I haven’t found one and no one else has either.
Buba,
It’s unclear that his trials were for all the same murder; it appears that individual is on trial for several murders. I don’t think anyone believes verbatim what Allan says…but he raises enough information, none of which has been disputed here with contrary fact, for a sensible individual to have reasonable doubt. You haven’t responded to my reply to yourself above. I believe you’re what’s called a TROLL.
Pythagorus wrote a very well thought out commentary…and it seems to have surpassed you.
I’m curious Buba, are you from Winona? Are you White? Are you poor? Are you Christian? Why do I want to know this info; cuz it all provides context to whom you’re a peer of….and more.
Dear Buba
You are too funny, only the sad part is that you apparently have no intention of being humorous.
An honest observer could no more take Mr. Bean’s word for the case than one could honestly interpret your impaired intellect to solely represent of the town of Winona or the entire south for that matter.
And if standing up for everyone’s legal rights in this country makes me a racist, then I confess a million times that I am proudly guilty as accused by you.
It would be too easy to indict the town of Winona and the entire south simply because morons like you habitat the region, but to be fair, mentally challenged morons with low IQs like you are not limited to your region and unfortunately litter the entire country from coast to coast. But I digress.
If there is anything to be learned at school, assuming you even went, it would be reading, and fyi, there are more stories available on this case from so many different sources you could never read them all, whether you can read or not. So save your lame racist accusations that I rely on one source for my information.
As for a jury of ones peers, it is the duty of the courts to impanel a jury of one’s peers. PERIOD.
And so sorry, but an all white jury cannot possibly be construed as a jury of one’s peers if the defendant is black. even if you are a moron.
And if that cannot be accomplished in the venue of Winona, then the court should move the trial elsewhere like the rest of the country does.
Or is the little fiefdom of Winona so special that the US constitution does not apply?
Pythagorus, the defense has had a choice of having this trial somewhere else besides Winona, but it was their decision to have it there. Yes, the constitution does apply!! Are you sure you’re not working for Bean? Sounds like it. If you weren’t at the trials from the beginning of trial ONE through the end of trial Six, then you haven’t heard the facts, just what Bean has written.
Aloha Anna
Thank you for your clarifications.
I cannot understand why any legit defense would not request a change in venue, so I am stumped on that. But I am certainly no legal scholar, just a bitter victim of the crooked US justice system which provides Justice (for the rich) and just us for the the rest of us.
Otherwise, I am truly just an outside observer, with absolutely no connections or special insights, so in all honestly I must confess I am easily less than fully informed and it wouldn’t be the first time.
Yet, the higher courts are consistently setting aside the lower court findings, so something is obviously not adding up at the end of the day.
Therefore, if a conviction is what you folks want, it appears you will have to get it some other way, and the suggestion to start over completely anew seems the only logical choice, with all new players for the defense, the prosecution, the judge and the court venue.
Nothing else makes sense. You have run the gamit six times now and a new plan is clearly warranted to get the conviction to pass the test of the higher courts.
Otherwise, I will take the opportunity to apologize to Buba for my ad hominem attack on him, which serves no good and only hinders a genuine open sincere discussion on how to best move ahead with this dilemma so the rights of all involved are served.
But before anyone rushes to judgment, just remember the case of Hurricane Carter, because you are talking about a man’s life, and until this case passes the higher court reviews, the facts have not yet supported the conviction(s).
So again, I implore everyone to consider the case of Hurricane Carter, which is apparently no longer an anomaly in this country and has on the contrary become the apparent norm for our society, with little second thought to the lives of others we destroy so quickly and righteously.
Pythagorus Referencing Hurricane Carter didn’t help the cause….I mean, this Tardy case there’s no one making any sense of the exposed discrepancies….where as you see here in the Carter case…there’s some serious effort to show “the other side”….
http://www.graphicwitness.com/carter/
my apologies and appreciation for the clarification, my bad; i will exit stage left now.
mahalo and aloha
Don’t exit the stage…might be more intellectuals arriving soon!
I think the real reason why Carter and Steiner had the trial in Winona was because… they were thinking that if they got just one black person on the jury, it would be a hung jury again this year. They had their chance to get more blacks on the jury because they didn’t use all of their 15 strikes and they knew that most of the blacks knew Curtis Flowers or was kin to him. They knew they would have more white people on the jury than black people. They had their chance to have the trial somewhere else, but no… they had to have it in Winona because they wanted another hung jury. The black man(on the jury) yes black man, did different than what Carter wanted and expected him to do. They had no idea that it would be a unanimous decision. After the decision was made, the jury was sent back and both sides had to have witnesses to tell the impact the murders have affected their life’s. The defense had to wait and find their witnesses, because they were expecting another hung jury!!! You can blame Carter and Steiner for not having more blacks on the jury because they had a chance to have the trial wherever they wanted it!!!!
Pythagorus if you haven’t been to any of the trials and do not know anything other than what you have heard, you should not be committing on this case!
Good,Pythagorus has left the stage!!! I want to know if you went to any of the trials, too??? If not, I agree with Buba. If you didn’t go to any of the trials, you shouldn’t be committing. Bean went to this last trial and he knows Curtis Flowers lied about where he was and what he was doing that day of the murders. First he says he got up at 6:30 and kept his girlfriends’ kids and then he changed his story… he got up at 9:00 and left around noon to go to the store!!!! No one testified that they saw him that day doing what he said he was doing, why not???? All lies and Bean knows it!! Yes Bean, one person could kill 4 people in the same room. If someone had a gun pointed at me, I would do what exactly what they say to do and so would the others. Mrs. Tardy, Mr. Golden and Bobo was probably already shot when Mrs. Rigby came to work. Curtis Flowers is guilty and Bean might as well admit it and let the donations go to some families that really need help!
Don’t exit the stage…might be more intellectuals arriving soon!
LOL
FFC as in Fat Fucking Chance there will ever be any intellectuals coming out of that inbred town.
reading this site makes me ecstatic I live far far away from that mecca of mentally deficient racists.
it is an extension of the movie groundhog day, where the same old tired stale story is parroted and repeated every day, day in, day out and the sheople are so clueless they keep writing and repeating the same old tired stale story day in, day out and keep trying to get a square peg to fit into a round hole and push on a door labeled pull.
you could come back here in a day, a month, a year, heck 13 yrs apparently and 6 trials later and six endless continuations where thoughtful outsiders with an IQ higher than 3.14159 then look at the facts and throw the case out, again, and again and again and again. and going to be again now totaling 6 times very very soon.
What do they say … if at 1st you don’t succeed, try try again …
notice it says try try again, as in 2 times (as in double jeopardy) morons.
well it is 6 times later now and you pea brain morons in Winona are still trying to convince anyone, if you werent here you dont know …
duh, save it for the Supreme Court
so keep up the good entertainment you morons.
The rest of the country loves watching you boobs make absolute fools of yourselves, using the same old stale tired actors to tell the same old stale tired story that the Supreme Court boots out every single time.
Classic Definition of insanity:
Doing the same old thing over and over, expecting a new or different result …
and so where did you folks go to school?
Bwaahahaaaaaaaaaaa
Apparently Pythagorus, you think you are the only one that knows anything and everyone else is a pea brain…. sounds like you are the only pea brain!!!!! Sounds like you are trying to entertain more than anyone. The rest of the country loves watching you make a absolute fool of your self and you’re doing a pretty good job of it. Keep the good work up!!!!i
In case you haven’t noticed, you keep repeating yourself over and over like you are trying to convince yourself because you haven’t convinced me at all. I was at the trials and you can believe Bean if you want to, who knows you may be working with him, sure sounds like you are!!! Have a good day!
Best summarized in the book by William Graves Perry. “Forms of Intellectual and Ethical Development in the College Years; A Scheme.” This is classic Dualism. A modern day example of Tartuffe.
Anna has a point. It is difficult to assess this case simply by looking at the facts on the surface. If you haven’t been in Winona it is difficult to appreciate the depth of the suffering the victims and their families have experienced on a daily basis since that terrible day in 1996. If you haven’t met Curtis and his family, it is difficult to assess his personality and the atmosphere in which he was raised. It is possible, however, to look at the sheer ambiguity of this case and harbor serious doubts about the fairness of the trial. If you believe the state’s witnesses it looks very bad for Curtis. If you don’t believe these people serious questions are raised as to why they originally agreed to testify. The initial investigation was very weak. True, a great deal of effort went into the search for witnesses, but no attempt was made to pursue alternative theories of the crime. It was just “Do you know Curtis? Did you see him on the morning of the crime?” Ask that kind of question on the poor side of any town and you will get takers . . . if, that is, you have $30,000 on offer. The fact that the witnesses haven’t collected a cent is immaterial. They thought they would benefit. Once they had signed a statement their feet were nailed to the floor; they couldn’t back away without being charged with perjury. Some witnesses were motivated by the money (Patricial Hallmon comes to mind), but most weren’t trying to scam the state; the state was begging to be scammed. Katherine Snow (the woman who saw somebody by Doyle Simpson’s car) had no interest in reward money, she just wanted to be left alone. It was obvious that she would be hounded periodically until she said she saw Curtis. Others, like Clemmie and Jeanette Fleming, would never have gone to the police on their own volition, but were motivated by a mix of fear and greed once they found themselves face-to-face with John Johnson. All of these people are inherently unreliable. If the state had waited for people to come to them it is likely that not a single person would have stepped forward voluntarily. There is no problem with looking for potential witnesses; but since the state did such a poor job of keeping records we don’t know how these folks were treated. Were they tempted with reward money? Were they threatened with litigation if they failed to cooperate? There is no way of knowing, but the evidence at hand is hardly reassuring. This is why I think we need a from-scratch investigation that is open to a full range of possibilities. We can’t have justice until this happens. You don’t have to believe 100% that Curtis is innocent to have concerns about the quality of justice he has received.
Alan Bean
Quote:
“Apparently Pythagorus, you think …”
Yes Anna, it is true, unlike you and your posse, I think, hence I am, or is it I am hence I think? Hm, but I digress (because I think!)
Just imagine.
There are other possibilities to the set of facts surrounding the case, as agreed by the MS State Supreme Court.
Just imagine.
The audacity of them … and they weren’t even there! How can they make such proclamations when they weren’t even there?
They can read, and think, and contemplate other scenarios than pushing on a door labeled PULL for 13 yrs and 6 stale trials …
Yes, Anna. I think.
You ought to try it sometime.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Aloha
btw Anna
for your edification, regarding your farcical statement:
The rest of the country loves watching you make a absolute fool of your self and you’re doing a pretty good job of it. Keep the good work up!!!!i
Hmm, is that the best you got?
As part of the rest of the country, we are watching you folks in the town of Winona play out the weak comedic film Groundhog Day, which might be funny were it not for the real-life jeopardy you place Mr. Flowers in.
And you, in all your center stage glory retort:
nani nani booboo, I am rubber you are glue and whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
I say, brilliant come back, for a kindergartner or grade schooler.
And that is what you and your posse consistently demonstrate yourselves to be.
So run along now and complete the next act of the movie.
However, if you really believe the rest of the world is reading this website and watching me make a fool of myself, then well, you are far more farcical than I realized and in that case, you are missing your calling in life, unless you are already a clown in the circus
… or maybe you are just the Police, Investigators, Judge, Jury, and executioners simple, very very simple townsfolk from Winona …
oh my, well yes, you are all the above arent you?
Point proven. Case closed … almost …
one of these years … duh
Bwhaaahaaaahahahahahahaaaaaaa
Now, Diogenese Teufelsdrockh
You have implored me as follows:
Don’t exit the stage…might be more intellectuals arriving soon!
Why do you quip so ???
Are you reading from a different script than the rest of us and/or prophesying better times???
Or do you simply playing court jester ???
Because, as far as I can tell from this perspective, the only one here paying any real attention to the details in the script is Bean and the educated folk residing OUTSIDE the GOD forsaken hamlet of Winona.
The rest are just …
Hhhmmm, imagine the possibilities …
Just THINK!!!!!!!
You sound like a little baby!!!! Grow up and get a life.Pyhtho whoever you are,reallly!!
Oh yea, I’m not from Winona!!!! Sorry to burst your bubble, but you will get over it. I’m sure Mr. Bean would love to help you out, since he is so thoughtful and helpful.
Pythagorous,
I guess for fleeting moment I could play Jonathan Swift…..
I find this entire tragedy to be best summarized in the book by William Graves Perry. “Forms of Intellectual and Ethical Development in the College Years; A Scheme.” This really is classic Dualism.
I say, it’s a twist of a modern day Tartuffe!
Thanks for sharing Diogenese. Now, could you translate that into normal parlance for those, like me, who haven’t read William Graves Perry?
Alan Bean
Simply put and to quote Perry, “For the Dualist, knowledge is absolute; there is Truth and Falsity, Right and Wrong, Good and Bad. “For every question there is a simple answer” would be a characteristic Dualist statement. Authorities are those who have the Answers. Disagreement among them is unthinkable–facts are facts! Belief systems are not chosen, they are given–unquestioned, unanalyzed backdrops to the student’s experience.”
For a dualist, no matter what is said from someone’s mouth whom they feel is NOT an authority, is false. Everything falls on deaf ears. There is no logic, there is nothing which can be said which will “get them to see the light.” They can only change their views by discovering for themselves, often by transitioning out of dualism as a result of the experience. There is no concept of relativism or ‘shades of grey’……these are also the perfect Jurors.
To understand the allusiion, you’ll have to read Tartuffe, it’s a fun play and a quick read. The DA in this case is like Tartuffe….outside the fact that the DA actually might believe he’s right…..Tartuffe knows he’s a scoundrel.